Say something about Ai

I’ve just come across this discussion and find it fascinating. I view AI as a radical civilizational shift—one that would vanish instantly if the electric power were simply cut. It seems to me that AI-generated creations have no place here. As for using AI as a tool—much like we’ve long used drum machines or pitch correction— my opinion is : it would be better and more honest to let the community know that it's not 100% organic. I like knowing whether I’m eating organic or chemical-laden food, even if chemistry can work wonders for flavor! Since I don’t want to waste my time (or my ears) on food containing chemical ingredients, I’d prefer to be informed.
We don’t all look for the same thing in music; what I value is the emotion it conveys—a human-to-human connection that makes me feel part of something greater. It’s an almost spiritual sensation, so the simulated emotion of a machine feels like a stab in my heart, I definitely need sincerity.

By the way, the subject is so complex that some people are actually losing their cool over it… "The reason we don't allow bullying, flaming (…) we like to have a nice and relaxed atmosphere (…) All right?peace! (…) you are starting to piss me off now with your endless agitating..."
:| Is that the same person writing ?
Peace, love and authenticity my friends ! :)

---

If the powers that be at Wikiloops keep rules forbidding the use of copyrighted material- then it simply must include Ai music as not allowed.
I asked chatGTP, an Ai entity about Ai music. Response; “ AI music is based on previous musicians' work as it is trained on copyrighted works without compensation or consent. AI-generated music refers to the music created with the help of machine learning and artificial intelligence programs. These programs are trained with large musical datasets and generate anything from lyrics to instrumental beats and full songs with vocals.”
This is clearly a fact from the source !

---

I won't go into detail (and I’m not usually one to say much anyway). I’ve just re-read this thread... It’s a vast subject... When I am officially asked for my opinion, I will give it! But today, I want to say that a certain gentleman we all know is, in my eyes, a good man—someone who has always shown respect for others throughout the exchanges we’ve had over the years. So, if this thread no longer allows for the exchange of viewpoints, then there is a problem.

---

This AI problem on wiki goes way back.
to this Link.
https://www.wikiloops.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=3746&rowstart=20

---

I read through this thread for the first time yesterday, and my impression is not only that AI technology is developing faster than we can learn to deal with it, but also that it is influencing the way people interact with one another. The combination of these two factors is a breeding ground for conflict.

Opinions may be divided on AI-generated content – personally, I wouldn’t call myself a civil engineer, bricklayer or electrician if I were to instruct (or ‘prompt’) someone else to build a house for me. Even if I describe it to them in detail, the intellectual effort lies with the architect and the craftsmanship with the tradespeople. Just imagine how many strange or faulty houses there would be if AI were to start building houses right now. And, above all, the incredible number of building ruins...

On the second point mentioned: what we should certainly not lose is respect for the views of others, provided they express their own opinions in an equally respectful tone.

By the way: this text wasn’t written by an AI, and I wouldn’t let one build a house for me either. And before I let an AI sing for me, I’d rather start singing myself, even if it meant risking being tied up and gagged by the neighbours.

But: if someone wants to have a machine sing for them and imagine it’s a human being, let them do so. In the meantime, I’m enjoying a real live concert with real musicians and friends in a small jazz club where AI isn’t allowed in ;)

---

[youtube]G2Rhh_4GZmU[/youtube]

---

haha Good one Phil!! :D:D

---

The worst of the worst.
On the other hand, these pseudo-musicians will have trouble performing live.
[youtube]jy91b09LYQ4[/youtube]

---

When Tofzegrit recently informed me that the members had decided against using artificial intelligence on WL, I replied that I hadn't been notified of this and that I would not use AI on WikiLoops in the future.

Unless I am mistaken, the topic was raised by Ernie440 on August 23, 2026, meaning the discussion began well before I uploaded my last three tracks; surely you can understand that I do not wish to be made a scapegoat in this matter! Whether on WikiLoops or any other forum, I have always respected the administrators' guidelines.

To me, WikiLoops is a place where I have always felt I could find musician friends, and I hope it remains that way for years to come.

Best regards,
Ray

---

---
I was interested in getting a summary an overview of the topic—covering everything from the beginning up to the present day. Being the generous soul that I am, I’m happy to share that summary with you. :)
Before I forget, I enlisted the help of AI.
Best regards, :D
Ray
-
P.S.: Attached is a PDF containing a pros and cons table that is better presented.
------------------------------
📑 DISCUSSION SYNTHESIS - WIKILOOPS COMMUNITY## Subject: Impact and Regulation of Artificial Intelligence on the Platform
------------------------------
📝 INTRODUCTION
In August and September 2026, a fundamental debate rippled through the community of amateur musicians on the collaborative jam-session website [Wikiloops]. Triggered by the upload of suspicious tracks, this discussion thread brought together dozens of members, volunteer moderators, and site veterans. The central issue: defining the line between legitimate technological evolution and algorithmic cheating, in order to preserve the deeply human DNA of the platform.
------------------------------
💬 WORDS FROM MUSICIENS (Key Quotes)

🎙️ “Choosing a musical style via a text prompt is like picking a dish from a restaurant menu. It makes you the customer, not the cook.”

🎙️ “Wikiloops is like a global jam session around a campfire. It's a space of vulnerability where we share our imperfections. A perfect track generated by AI brings no pride and no human connection.”

🎙️ “In the same way that we want to know whether the food we eat is organic or chemical, we have the right to know whether the music we listen to is 100% organic or modified.”

------------------------------
🔍 MAIN AXES OF THE DEBATE## 1. Categorical Rejection of Generative AI (100% Machine)
The community displays a massive refusal of tracks completely designed by music-creation AIs (such as Suno).

* Loss of Authenticity: AI produces a standardized, clinical perfection. Members value human imperfection, which is perceived as the very source of a track's character and emotion.
* Absence of Artistic Effort: Generating a track without any technical or intellectual expertise eliminates merit and the very concept of authorship.

# 2. The "Gray Area": Technological Assistance vs. Imposture
The debate becomes more nuanced regarding production assistance tools (drum plug-ins like Superior Drummer, mixing software, automated mastering tools like Landr, or pitch-correction tools):

* Tolerated: Using technology as a "crutch" to save time, compensate for a lack of equipment, or overcome a physical disability (for instance, an injured musician using the tool to keep creating).
* Condemned: The lack of transparency. The real issue raised is not the tool itself, but lying to the community by claiming credit for an automated performance.

# 3. Legal Risks (The Copyright Question)
A major technical argument was raised concerning the legality of the files:

* Generative AI models are trained by massively copying copyrighted works without the consent of the original artists.
* Therefore, uploading generative AI to the site technically amounts to importing content derived from plagiarism, which violates Wikiloops' fundamental rule regarding the respect of copyright.
------------------------------
🛠️ PROPOSED SOLUTIONS AND ACTIONS
Faced with the lack of immediate directives from the founder (Dick) and the heavy workload of volunteer moderators, the community suggests several alternatives:

* Technical Approach and Labeling: Integrating mandatory checkboxes during file upload ("This track contains AI / AI-Free"). Some members also propose to collectively fund automatic scanners (such as Deezer's AI Music Detector).
* Splitting the Public Space: Creating a paid section or totally isolated workspaces separate from the main feed for members wishing to experiment with AI, so as not to "pollute" the traditional space.
* Moderation Strategy: Two visions clash. The passive method advocates for disinterest (ignoring and refusing to remix suspected tracks to make them disappear naturally), while the active method demands a strict reporting and banning policy to protect the site's "100% human" image.
------------------------------
📌 CONCLUSION
This debate demonstrates that the Wikiloops community does not view AI as a simple technical evolution (as synthesizers or DAW software were in their time), but as a major philosophical rupture. For almost all members, the platform must imperatively assert itself as a bastion of human creation and impose total transparency to preserve the trust and kindness that unite its musicians.
------------------------------

---

StJray attached the following file:
wikiloops_forum_attachment_1789537911.pdf

---

Edited by StJray on 16. September 2026 um 07:57

---

Hello :) This is the infamous Richard writing, for all who may not know.

I have just read this entire thread. For real, I did it.

I'll tell you what I've read here:
I read a lot of appreciation for wikiloops being a community of real people, with some expressed fear of that being endangered by people who upload AI generated music.
I share the view that wikiloops value rests in the human interaction. And there is human interaction, I just read thru six pages of it, and not a single post looked AI generated to me - I did not run them thru any detection tool tho.

_______

A short verdict before the long version:
wikiloops let's any uploader confirm that the uploaded audios content is their own creation and does not contain any audio from third party. A track entirely generated by some AI service originates from a third party, so it can't be uploaded to wikiloops without contradicting the required confirmation of sole authorship.
Both legally relevant aspects of authorship/composition and performance need to be held by the uploader, post-processing like AI driven mastering tools running on your local machine are okay to do, for as long as the composition and performance that is enhanced are yours. That is the position on AI generated music the current license & upload verification system implicitly states.
If that should be more explicit in your eyes, I don't mind re-wording the upload confirmations.
_______


For those who feel that something is in danger here,
let me say this:
I do agree, wikiloops is in danger because there is AI, but I disagree on AI music uploads being the threat one should be worried about.

I have just looked at the 200 most recent uploads to verify this:
What I see there is a small number of new member contributions, with one out of five doing the classic beginners mistake of posting way too many tracks at once, leading to zero feedback on each.
Looking at that, I did not even bother checking whether that audio is potentially AI driven. One individual getting it wrong in 200 uploads does not look worse then one should expect, an onslaught of people pushing onto wikiloops to publish their AI tracks would look very different.

Is there danger of not finding the good stuff as it is drained by poor stuff?
Sure, that is always the issue with growing data collections, so it had to be solved on wikiloops long before AI came into the game.
New users / visitors are not focused on the latest jams at all, but browse by genre or instrument lineup, and trust me, the results there are pruned not to include any quickly dumped uploads that never lead to any interaction.
So, does wikiloops look as if we encouraged AI uploads on the outside? I do not think so, because wikiloops surfaces tracks which the community valued most, so I'm sure the tracks attracting new members represent our focus on hand-played music.
The only space that could be "flooded" are the "latest jams" lists, but their relevance is limited for the initial impression what wikiloops is.
In a way, I feel reluctant to put up a sign emphasizing on "we don't do AI music", as that should be self-explanatory.
You would not request your dentist needing a sign saying "We don't do car repairs" either.
And there is only limited effect by putting up such signs, wikiloops is full of hints like "Don't play everything yourself to leave space for others", "we only do our own compositions on wikiloops, no covers", "you should start by uploading remixes of other active people and mingle with the community before expecting remixes to your tracks" and the like.
Does that keep the eventual new member from getting it wrong? No, such hints obviously have limited effect.

My view is that AI generated music does not create any new problems that had not pre-existed.
People have been testing what happens if you upload any kind of dubious audio to this platform for fifteen years - and we have so far managed to spot a few likeable folks to jam with, whilst simply ignoring the two-thousandth mis-tuned bagpipe upload by some member.
I believe the existence of AI generated music does shake up our trust, or our feeling of "I feel safe here, as I know these are real people and no-one is cheating".
Well, we've always had that trust issue, and rightly so, the anonymous internet called for some skepticism long before AI, and some tracks just sounded too good to be home recordings from some garage.
The old "is this person trying to impress me with some sample libraries content delivered as their own material" has been turned into "is this person trying to impress me with some ai generated stuff?" - that's a gutfeeling thing, and the range in sensitivity is probably quite wide as well.
Assume you were a bass player who landed on some track looking for a beat to practice along to, you might not really care how real that recording is, if it suits your demand, you would not care at all.
So, the whole trust issue only arises between potential collaborators?
No, we have a different situation here:
Some of you identify some others uploads as not trustworthy, and feel a need to raise a flag even tho you have no interest in working with those tracks.
And that is worth looking into, as it is not a constructive reaction.
Whilst someone uploading some AI generated track makes the social mistake of thinking this would go unnoticed and praise for faked skill was available, engaging in some "I'll prove you are fake!" competition is not making things any better.
Sure, we are curious beings wanting to verify our gutfeelings, but seriously: running someone elses audio thru some thing advertised as a free AI detection tool is not smart.
Has anyone read into the terms of use of that service? Do they possibly expect consent to use any uploaded audio for their own "research" purposes?
Let's not be naive here, one could think of a legal argument about your right to do that, as passing on someones audio to third party AI checker tools is most likely not covered by private use. Ooops, you may have crossed a legal line here.

And even if the tool confirms your gutfeeling and gives you the 99% sure AI signal, what do you do then? Call the wikiloops police?

I'll tell you what we'll do:
1. No problem emphasizing purely AI generated audio does not belong on wikiloops, and use of other AI enhancers should be openly stated. Both statements can be easily added to the upload process for those who care to read.
2. We will not attempt to implement any automatic detection of AI generated audio anytime soon. This is too error prone and would lead to false flags and outside dependencies, whilst bringing little benefit. I have done research on that, and I feel giving a guarantee on being 100% human music only is very likely over-promising. AI gets better every day, it will evade detection easily.
3. We will continue to allow people to use wikiloops in ways which we don't understand or feel as unfitting the community - it's called tolerance & artistic freedom. Most make mistakes when starting out, some develop weird upload patterns despite little engagement with the community. That is not problematic in itself, more mistuned bagpipe tracks will not spoil wikiloops either, as long as there are enough people collaborating constructively, as I believe there are.

Last, I'd seriously appreciate if you would reconsider the "we have an alarming problem here, and look, Richard does not care" messaging. This thread was started by someone voicing their thoughts and inviting a discussion on how to deal with AI generated music,
I'm not fond of the added drama, at all.
If anyone wants a detailed answer on what the alarming issues are from my point of view, feel free to ask.
I just checked, wikiloops code was updated 240 times in the past 10 months, in parts to fend off some of the real AI threats. Just sayin', someone cares.

We all need to deal with the digital world being less trustworthy as AI populates it.
The positive side to this is: We all are absolutely capable of distinguishing between someone who is a real musician who plays one or a few instruments at a certain skill level and someone who pretends to play and record any instrument professionally.
Any of you could go down the list of recent uploaders and do an instant "real deal" vs "not so sure" distinction just by peeking at their last ten uploads. We do recognize signals like "uploads A LOT, with a leaning towards templates", "always does multi-instrument uploads" vs "remixes other peoples tracks" and "adds the same instrument consistently" at a single glance, and there is no lack of trustworthy members from what I see.

---

Having an extra checkbox to indicate "AI enhancers" as well as making the conditions on the uploader page more explicit would be helpful!

---

more checkboxes please :)

[img]https://www.technospot.net/blogs/img/Select-multiple-checkboxes-in-Firefox-Chrome-600x600.jpg[/img]

---

Indeed.

---

A bit too general i.m.h.o.
What is an "enhancer; EQ, reverb, stompbox, sample library, VST ?

My thought; Suggestion:

I confirm to be the author of this creative work, I have not made use of music or lyrics which fall under third party copyrights, nor do I have an agreement with a third party which collects royalties in my name. I am aware uploading so called "covers" of known tracks is not allowed in the public wiki on wikiloops.com, including Artificial Intelligence and machine learning generated music or lyrics.

Seems to me should make uploaders aware
- then there is the problem of enforcement. There does seem to be advice given to copyright violations, to be removed, so politely asking may be only avenue ...

my 2¢

---

I was just looking at the latest uploads and "it": https://www.wikiloops.com/artist/Enrique%20M

is already attempting to overload the system it appears. Check out how many uploads in the last 2 days; personal info; quality of uploads. What Wade predicted has come to pass --I have already PM'd Dick.

---

Wait, have I missed something? It's not AI at all, he's just playing all instruments on his keys from what I heard, that's all :) There's absolutely nothing wrong here... if something's wrong here, then maybe 50% of uploads are illegal :D

---

This is exactly what Dick was talking about. Please, let`s not jump to conclusions based on feelings.

---

Speaking of which Alex, your playing seems too precise and slick sounding ... hmmm I got my eyes on you! 👀 :D

Yeah .. it's obviously not Ai ... the bulk uploading is a bit disturbing however.

---

Alex is AI.... Awesome Instrumentalist :W:)

---