Say something about Ai

Dec 2014 apparently Wade.....you'll find it on youtube. A BBC interview.

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And was it before or after Hawking went to Epstein island?? Now there's an image that is hard to shake. :O:D

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for some reason i picture him on an electric tricycle for that special occasion:o

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haha! :D

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[youtube]TP8SMEFnGVQ[/youtube]

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This is the AI ​​section; here’s a bit of what I think about it within the context of WL... see my comment here: #341831... but I love Ray. <3 👍​

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The music sounded great and I'm a big fan of Ray's yet still wish that we weren't bringing AI to this site.

As mentioned in an early post to this topic a quick and easy solution could be to set up a separate section in WL for any track that uses AI as the instrument, changes the sound, or it it's totally the track's creator.

Those who then wish to use AI need to ONLY post there. This keeps the rest of the site clean. I'd still prefer to see no AI here, yet it seems that many are putting aside their desire to become better musicians and are happy to let a computer make them sound better. Is that a really good idea?

There are also a large and steadily increasing number of music sites that are PROUDLY claiming to be AI free. Wouldn't WL fit this category nicely? It would also potentially put WL very high on the list of a Google search (WL is not very visible there currently... does that matter?).

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I don't know... it sounds like shit to me :D It's like listening to music made in a sterilized laboratory... Give me some bugs, some bacteria, some viruses lol

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Absolutely not for all the obvious reasons. I think this illustrates that perhaps we really do need some kind of rule here about Ai, like I mentioned before maybe a declaration/agreement right in the upload process that your track is Ai free or will be removed. Or like Wade said, an entirely separate subsection of the loops for cheating, err I mean Ai tracks :D:D

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it gotta have Real SOUL....

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We supposedly already have what Richard accepted as that rule in the tick box saying that we are the author of the work. That's vague, however we have also had 100% AI tracks posted and reported with nothing done. Another rule that's even more specific won't matter unless it's enforced.

Richard was mostly absent in the previous discussion and is totally absent from this one. TeeGee has made it clear that he won't be enforcing anything. It's Richard's site so it will always be his call.

I frankly don't want to see any AI here, however if there is a separate section and a track shows up that's AI it's a simple matter to bounce it to the AI section. That doesn't require much and it's not like you're needing to investigate or expel anyone. They're still here and so is their track.

Those who wish to hear or produce AI stuff can go there. The rest of us can continue to struggle with being human and maybe also celebrate our imperfections...

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Wade you are starting to piss me off now with your endless agitating. You just have to go on and on and on and on as you always do, until something breaks, don't you? I said that until there is a workable solution that Dick will decide and impliment, I won't be chasing after suspicions of use of AI.

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Your position is well understood and I've reminded the members that we have absolutely no say in what's decided. However the members may like to throw around ideas. This is supposedly an open forum for members to have discussions, and so we are. Who knows it just might be that someone comes up with something that's useful.

There is no intent to piss you off. You and Richard will do whatever you please without regard to the members. Hopefully we all understand that. There is nothing for you to be upset about as we are totally powerless, and our discussions and ideas easily ignored and potentially useless.

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Am I the only one who thinks Wade doesn't deserve to be spoken to in that tone?

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I don't think from what I've read, a lot of the supporters of this site aren't diggin' the Ai. People that like to upload Ai probably aren't going to donate all that much to the site. They are by nature IMO, a little bent psychologically, looking for praise without any real work. Why don't I just start uploading bass lines from Stanley Clark or some other super pro and say it's me ... weeee I can't wait for the feedback LOL Might be good for a joke though :D

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I just stumbled upon this topic ‘by chance’ lol.

As some of you know, I was forced to stop playing (bass, guitar, and piano) for over a year and have only very recently started up again slowly. In the meantime—with my passion for music remaining unshaken—I found myself exploring the ‘extraordinary’ world of AI... :)

Who knows the proverb: "Life is made of opportunities to be seized at the right moment," or this one: "…you have to catch the train while it’s passing," or even that one: "…you have to strike while the iron is hot".

However, for several reasons, I believe it would send the wrong message if WikiLoops were to strictly ban the use of AI on the platform. But... but... I think I have an idea that might appeal to both the members and the management. For those who have paid their dues and have the opportunity to form working groups: these groups could use a ‘reserved space’ to collaborate with other guests without offending anyone.
The idea still needs refining... it’s in your hands.
Best regards,
Ray

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Tonight I’m feeling sad; I got a message from one of our members who’s worried about being kicked off Wikiloops. Everything that makes a musician great and unique requires a human touch. People can think whatever they want about AI, but personally, I’m suspicious of it from the very first notes—because no matter who the musician is, they end up sounding like Bonamassa singing with a constricted larynx.
But that’s not the point—what direction is this site heading in? Toward uniformity? Toward trends? No music if you don’t have the phone app?
Music is a person with an instrument, and Wikiloops is a community of people with instruments. If AI manages to drive the good musicians off Wikiloops… then I’ll leave, because I’ll have lost what I came here for: the connection and kindness of those musicians.

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I started using card-reader computers around 1973 (I’m 80). With every iteration of computer development I was pleased and got into the spirit of it as more possibilities emerged. I built MS PCs from scratch from swap meets and used the first POV ray-trace software in 1989, with the first GUI written by Lutz Kretzschmar (Munich) which was well above my pay-grade to understand the C++ behind it. Using Logic Pro, is again light years beyond what I could accomplish with a tape recorder and a microphone. I marvel at being able to make a Take Folder, wherein I could record multiple tracks that would then stack so that I could select individual notes from a track to make a composited single — perhaps a weeks worth of work if tried by other methods.

I now am faced with drawing the line on Session (Drum / Piano / Bass) generated player. Likewise the algorithms in iReal Pro give me perfect airless BossaNova or other style songs in any key or length. A pre-cursor to AI. Dick politely shut down my first song using it—well before I had read the Rules. I am lucky to still be on here! 



The solution seems to me that as I get better musically, I will be better able to decide what arrangement FEELs natural and not too artificially filled in. It is hard to use a modern DAW and not feel that the computer is still doing a large percentage of the music recording, filtering, etc. Logic Pro even has a new one-click Mastering that takes away the hours of trying to get tracks through a compressor and sets the whole track at -1db (perfect). Using full-on AI would exclude my input and not give any satisfaction.

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I support free speech and discussing Ai and its implications seem like an important and timely subject right now, especially since it impacts music creators very strongly. Why have a forum if discussion is discouraged ?

When posting a track we adhere to WL “License agreement and copyright responsibility”
That should be conclusive on how to handle Ai posts. If I make an mp3 from another artist published music and I post it - that is not allowed on WL. I support that !
Ai is material derived from copyrighted music. It is still copies and makes use of copyrighted music and music artists work.
How is that not clear ?
...and will you chase after copyright infringement ?

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Look, I can understand why people are asking Richard for a rule or at least a clarification of existing rules regarding AI.

But keep in mind that having a rule about AI on Wikiloops, be it a rule banning AI or a rule keeping slop in a separated Wikiloops space, is nothing more than a (perhaps necessary) formality.

A rule banning AI may possibly deter a percentage of people from either joining Wikiloops or posting slop here but unfortuately, humans being humans, rules only have an effect if you can enforce them AND come up with sanctions.

The hard truth is that Dick is running Wikiloops on his own, no paid staff, just some volonteer moderators. Who`s going to invest the time to check 100% of new uploads? And who will pay the outfits that will smash the offenders kneecaps?

Maybe Wikiloops needs to turn into a paid membership only platform to get the financing for some automated slop checking. Quality has a price.

I wonder how many members (paying and non-paying) feel that playing on a 100% AI free platform would be worth $12 a month plus maybe a $2 slop-free premium.

Reading through this thread I get the impression that WL is heavily slop-infested, is that really so? If yes, maybe it`s already too late to do anything about it, so why are we having this discussion at all?

Anyway, before members start fighting among themselves about the best way to handle AI on Wikiloops, maybe they should turn to naming and shaming the culprits.

Btw, the argument that you can "hear" AI in uploads and that one can easily ignore those tracks is bullshit. If you can hear it now, rest assured that you won`t be able to identify AI tracks in a couple of months time. The beast is learning every nanosecond.

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