Understanding the LA music scene

I'm just frustrated and I want to vent it out visually, so take this with a grain of salt.

The scene here is entirely ego based. Artists don't strive for originality, they celebrate mediocrity and pat one another on the back for doing the bare minimum required to be considered a musician.

Call you back? No, that won't happen. You can audition for a band and slay it, and they will ghost you. Did you outperform them? Were your technical skills more than they could handle? I was once asked to not show up for a fourth rehearsal session because during the third rehearsal, I told the sax player we're playing 1-5-4, not 1-4-5. He was offended and told the guitarist; "We don't need that Berklee shit in here." The guitarist then left too and we had a band called Wheelhouse for a couple of years, so that was nice, but then there's the end of Wheelhouse ...

See, the singer we had was a combination of what Janis Joplin and Robert Plant would create - her voice was flawless, a stellar singer. On the other hand, she was an absolute basket case. At a year in, she had it out with the drummer, and subsequently was released. At 9 months of not being together at all, not having played any of the songs, or having been together in a room, we made a group decision to get together in a studio and see what we remember for a couple of hours. It was remarkable - legendary! One evening and we were back. This lasted 8 months, some great live performances, lots of attention, and she went of the rails again, this time on me for no reason at all, other than she's a basket case. Wheelhouse came to an end, never to be heard from again.

This is normal. I worked with a band, they decided an a name of Deadstar Collective. Stupid name, but I was overruled. Three years, the same 13 songs over and over. I told them we either had to record, or go out and play shows - this Friday night away from the wives bullshit had me unravelled. The two guitarists, both absolute wizards with a longstanding history on the LA music scene, they decided they weren't ready. I quit. 3 weeks later they booked a studio, recorded three of my songs, and in the following three years - they played twice. Primarily why I didn't care that they stole my songs for their record. (I'm old, I call them records). It's been over a year since, I think they recently played another show at a dive bar. Really? Like 7 years and you've played less than a hand-full of shows? After I left them, I played Barcelona, London, Madrid, Canada, across the states, even the Sturgis motorcycle rally in South Dakota - they played the same dive bar three times. That's LA.

Now try to find people interested in working on original music in Los Angeles. All these artists complaining that they can't get a band together, so you offer an original project with two solid albums and former clout. The DayDrinkers - we sounded like The Verve Pipe, or Vertical Horizon, or Tonic (in the 90's). Where do you find people? Well, in LA you post to Craigslist, the other frustrated artists who realistically live on Craigslist, and believe me, they typically suck, they flag your posts and get them removed. You post again, flagged and removed. They actually gate-keep the bottom rung of the ladder, after all Craigslist is the biggest group of shit players you've ever worked with. But people read it, I've actually found great gigs there.

So about this original music thing. You can't book it anywhere in LA. You can pay $800 to open at a theater show for a tribute act, but the tribute act gets paid. Earlier this year, one of the last Wheelhouse shows, in January - we played opening for The Long Run - an Eagles tribute. My dear friend Roby Duron (also the guitarist of Stevie Ray-visited) is an amazing guitarist and he plays in The Long Run. He let me know that our $800 to open was their pay for the night at the venue. We brought more than 175 people in to that show, most of which left when we did. The venue was pissed as we took the crowd out the door. I haven't played for that venue owner since, as he's seriously delusional that a high draw original act should pay a tribute band to open for them. It's all tributes here in LA, and all of them are bad, except for Queen Nation, and maybe Hollywood U2, but it's still unoriginal.

Now lets discuss the venue booking situation. Take the world famous Whisky A Go Go. It used to be a couple hundred bucks to get a slot, yes, you paid for tickets and had to sell them all if you wanted to break even. So that couple hundred now, is starting at $800 dollars to play the stage for 28 minutes. Then, get your gear off the stage because there are 5-7 acts playing, each one pays an incremental additional fee, so $800, $1000, $1200, $1500 $2000, $2800 - and then the headliner comes on. The Whisky rakes in 9-10 thousand dollars a night off the opening acts, and they get nothing - treated poorly, and most don't get the opportunity to do it twice if they didn't bring in 50+ people. NOBODY wants to drive into the dirty-ass Hollywood area, to pay $50 to park, and $40 a ticket to see a band play for 28 minutes - not even your family will support that.

A couple years ago I was hired to support a 17 year old up and coming guitarist who was opening the famous Rainbow Birthday Bash - the sister to the Whisky a Go Go. I found out later, his father paid $1800 for him to get that slot. We played like 5 songs! What the fuck, right?

And don't get me started on "Jam Night" at the Whisky. I started that jam night shit with James LoMenzo before he went on tour with John Fogerty. It's now many years in, I have nothing to do with it, but that's where all the suck-ass musicians play low quality cover songs for a couple hundred people and they go home and brag like their Kiss, or Judas Priest. Dude, you played two cover songs, nobody cared.

But the Ego. The "look at me" factor, I played the Whisky. Let me tell you something of no importance, in the past twenty years, I've played the Whisky a minimum of 20 times a year. Before that I was in the house band at the Cat Club (RIP), it doesn't mean anything - if you don't bring people in the door, you're playing to an empty room. Venues in Los Angels have NO draw, NOBODY says "Hey, it's Friday, lets blow a weeks pay on parking and tickets and go to the Whisky." You do better to rent a local hall that has a parking lot and a bar in it and put on your own shows with friends. It costs a lot less, and you don't have to deal with homeless junkies and gunshots.

So there's this thing I refer to as "Staying above the 405." The dastardly freeway you see in the news when people talk about Los Angeles, it's ugly, and it crosses another ugly freeway called the 101. Where they meet, south of the 405 is into Hollywood and downtown, North of the 405 (where I live) runs through the West San Fernando Valley and into Ventura County - lots of bars, small venues, wineries, places to play nice music. What is it riddled with? Low quality cover bands. I mean, last month I played in Simi Valley at a Mexican restaurant called Chuys, (sounds like Chewies), we played Margaritaville, and Beatles and Stones covers. It was fun because a bunch of friends came to dance and support the night, but it sucks. A cover band? I sat in for that one night and when asked to join full time, I passed. Irony, on Halloween they had a drummer filling in - it was the drummer from Wheelhouse! The band that will never reunite. Want a laugh, the band is called Deez Nuts.

So I spend time daily here on Wikiloops, listening, liking, sharing - and it's good, but none of that pays the bills. I have 35k worth of basses, years of experience touring the world, many, many albums floating in the ether, and countless studio works done for others - and I get flagged on Craigslist and play dive bars.

Now do I love just being a musician? Of course! But you spend a lifetime perfecting a craft and being able to show up, lay it down, exceed the standards, and it doesn't matter how hard you throw it out there, in Los Angeles, it hits the wall like a soft pile of dog shit. There is no scene in LA.

This week, my wife is in Nashville. The plan was I would join her this year, I have friends and even a business partner in Nashville who runs my Amazon accounts. By the way, I have a business, I invented the perfect earplug for musicians, it's cool. And she's sending me photos of places I've played, streets I've walked, studios I've sat in - and I couldn't be there. We've discussed relocating, but it isn't feasible, even though it's impossibly high dollar to live in LA right now. But damn, even the scene there is a little broken, but if you play the game, you play every night, and you survive on it. That doesn't happen in LA. Did you know you aren't allowed to put a tip bucket on the stage here? You can get fined, banned, removed. It's virtually illegal to make money with music in LA.

Good news, I am working on the 9th, of a potential 11 songs for a new album for Andrew Haller. It features Phil X's drummer, former vocalist of Impelliterri, a couple other fine people and a surprise keyboardist whom I can't openly share, but believe me, if he commits, ... well, it will be harder than Iron, and finer than a Maiden. Hint Hint. It's not a real Mystheria who it is. But I hope to share the album with any friends here who want to hear some good rock/metal stuff in the new year.

This felt good. I don't really go off like this to people here, it just pushes you further away from working with them - but get any LA based musician to talk openly and they will share the same pains. The truth, which unfortunately I'm damned good at sticking to and it often offends people, is that your history in music, your friends come and gone, and the shadow you left means nothing here. You pay, you get no better treatment for anything you do better as band, and you shut the fuck up and like it. That's my vent for the evening, turns out this forum thing is pretty cool for metal health night.

Goodnight folks, tip the waitresses, try the veal. We'll be back tomorrow night.

~ Joe

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Thank you Joe for writing this. For me, a home sofa amateur musician to read about the actual going ons from a real musician is very interesting!

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Wait Joe - are you telling us that you *pay* to play, instead of getting paid? What a mad world... :(

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I gather that's the way most locations around the world work, but yes. There are no major clubs here where a band that isn't. headlining gets paid.

Cover bands might get a couple hundred dollars at a bar or restaurant, but again - it's cover bands playing subpar versions of real music.

You cannot make a living playing original music in Los Angeles.

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Saw something on Netflix I think about Nashville, I think it's maybe more of a music scene but seems flooded with even more people all trying to do the same thing...make it in the music business.

Totally sucks Joe, sorry to hear all the underbelly stuff of the music scene you have to go through.

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Payin the same here in bars as they were in the late 70's ... it's ridiculous, no accounting for inflation :O

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Tonight, I’ve chosen to share this track—a piece where I improvised on the kora. I love this blend of synthesized sounds and acoustic instruments like the kora; it runs for 12 minutes. My thanks go to Milachica for their sensitivity in developing such templates (you don’t have to listen to the whole thing!). #344056
But just before this, I read a post by "JoeOnBass."
Perhaps that’s what inspired this track?
Here’s a guy from L.A. who has really been around the block in the music business—playing in various groups, doing recording sessions...
For us Europeans (and for me, as a Frenchman), it’s much the same story: we used to play in venues for nothing more than two beers and a sandwich—no actual pay!
For us in Europe, L.A. is the "mecca" of music, yet we see that cover songs remain popular, while original, composed music just doesn't sell anymore—and that’s the case all over the planet!
So, I want to thank JoeOnBass for sharing his feelings here on WL. Maybe playing here serves as a form of therapy for him—an outlet.
I’m not sure if Google Translate captured exactly what I meant, but... all the best on your journey, Joe!

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Edited by Jypeka on 4. November 2026 um 22:42

I always felt the left0hand coast of America held that promise, but I did better in New York and Boston than in LA. I think the entire machine is broken. Venues get paid even if nobody attends - this doesn't benefit artists. Because there is no regular foot traffic at these venues, the pay for venues comes fromd esperate bands looking to just get on stage. it is hard.

In Nashville, Tennessee - there is regular foot traffic up and down the street where all venues are, you can put a tip bucket on the front of the stage and patrons pay $20 to hear a song by a band of their choice. the hard part of that is that you must be versed in 200-300 songs without thinking about it. it could be from almost any genre, but you need to be ready to play almost intantly, so it is a different atmosphere - and it is still cover songs, but it makes a good living. I performed with aband that made $6000 in 5 hours for playing cover songs. Yes 300 people who walked in off the street gave $20 to hear a song. We didn't play everyone's favorite band, because the night goes by quickly, but artists get together and simply get on stage and play for tips - grab any three or four guys and go for it, you play at the top of the street in the morning, the bottom of the street in the afternoon and some venue with a 3rd floor at night, and you all live on that money for the next two weeks, maybe the rest of the month. Artists have two or three bands that they do this with and they play every day earning sometimes, a full weeks pay that day. On days not playing, they are in the studio writing and recording, looking to get the next hit song. Nashville is very different, but equally as expensive to live, and very crowded. Outsiders take a while to get introduced to players, and to get on stage. if you don't live in the proper Nashville center where it all happens, you won't be playing in Nashville - they are full.

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